Ray Sawyer ’13 is the director of community health partnerships at Well, a health tech and services company co-founded by Dave Werry ’06. On this episode of Catalyze, Ray shares about his path from a small, rural North Carolina town to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He touches on his public service project in Uganda as a Morehead-Cain Scholar and the “happy accident” that led him to South Korea on a Fulbright fellowship. The self-designed curriculum he built in South Korea turned the English block into an exploration of dialogue on poetry and pronunciation, sports and segregation, education, and expression. Using these experiences of innovation, he began working at Google and stayed with the company for more than seven years.
Ray Sawyer ’13 is the director of community health partnerships at Well, a health tech and services company co-founded by Dave Werry ’06.
On this episode of Catalyze, Ray shares about his path from a small, rural North Carolina town to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He touches on his public service project in Uganda as a Morehead-Cain Scholar and the “happy accident” that led him to South Korea on a Fulbright fellowship. The self-designed curriculum he built in South Korea turned the English block into an exploration of dialogue on poetry and pronunciation, sports and segregation, education, and expression. Using these experiences of innovation, he began working at Google and stayed with the company for more than seven years.
Today, he serves as a coach and consultant for Project Be Better, a startup he founded. Ray describes what kinds of problems he coaches college students through, and shares about re-thinking the concept of time management and what it means to live out holistic wellness.
As a member of Morehead-Cain’s Black Alumni Working Group (BAWG) and alumni board, Ray shares his aspirations for proactive relationship building among the scholar and alumni communities. The alumnus spoke with co-hosts Stella Smolowitz ’26 and Allyson Horst ’27 of the Scholar Media Team after a coffee chat event with scholars on October 14.
The episode’s intro song is by scholar Scott Hallyburton ’22, guitarist of the band South of the Soul.
On your mobile device, you can listen and subscribe to Catalyze on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For any other podcast app, you can find the show using our RSS feed.
Catalyze is hosted and produced by Sarah O’Carroll for the Morehead-Cain Foundation, home of the first merit scholarship program in the United States and located at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. You can let us know what you thought of the episode by finding us on Twitter or Instagram at @moreheadcain or you can email us at communications@moreheadcain.org.
(Stella)
Ray, thank you so much for joining us. Allyson and I enjoyed listening to what you are learning and are passionate about post-Carolina. What do you hope is the most important takeaway that scholars get out of today?
(Ray)
hat hope they will take away from this is that this is a space that is intentionally for our Black scholars and alumni to feel like they are part of this community. But more importantly, the Black Morehead-Cain experience is part of the Morehead-Cain experience. We think that both can be true, that people can be proud of their particular part of their identity and also be very intentional contributors to what Morehead-Cain is and what it stands for. It doesn’t necessarily require a duality, and I think there’s been tremendous progress in the history of the Foundation when we think about where we were 70 some odd years ago to where we are today. But we’re most excited about where we are going to the future, the new spaces and places, the new collaborations, the new sense of community that we can establish. And so I hope scholars leave feeling invigorated about what’s to come and excited about their contribution to bringing that to pass.
(Allyson)
So do you remember where you were when you first received the Morehead-Cain scholarship, and what was your reaction at the time?
(Ray)
I’ll never forget this story. So I was in Greenville, North Carolina. My high school basketball team was playing in the regional playoffs at Menges Coliseum at ECU, and I didn’t have a cell phone with Internet on it at the time, but there was a laptop in the locker room before the game. And I asked my coach, and I said, “Coach, can I check to see if I got the scholarship?” And he said, “No, wait until after the game.” Because his fear was I didn’t get the scholarship, and I’d be disappointed, and I wouldn’t play well. Well, it turns out that we ended up losing the game, and I was pretty down, but after the game one of my high school teachers was there, and she had a BlackBerry, and she let me log onto my Yahoo email with her BlackBerry, and the first sentence was “Congratulations!” And I didn’t even read the rest of the email, but everyone saw me smile, and I remember my dad screaming and yelling up and down the hallway in Menges Coliseum. So that’s where I was when I found out that I was going to have the Morehead-Cain scholarship. It was the right timing because it reminded me of the long term sacrifices that sometimes take place. I missed some basketball practices to come to Final Selection Weekend, and that, in combination with a couple other things, meant I lost my starting spot on the basketball team for that big game at East Carolina. The high school versionof me was like, “Oh no, starting in basketball is the most important thing ever.” But when I look back on history, I’d make the same decision every time.
(Stella)
Yeah. And then I know that your brother has been here today, and I’m sure you were saying that he’s the oldest of lots of kids. So I’m wondering if you could maybe tell a little bit about what you getting a scholarship meant for your family and your friends, because I know your brother also has it, so I’m sure that meant a lot to him.
(Ray)
My brother, Connie, is amazing. I can’t talk about myself without talking about my family. I can’t talk about my family’s legacy without talking about him. He set such a concrete example for us on what excellence could be, especially coming from Camden, North Carolina. Of the entire history of the Morehead-Cain, I’m only aware of two scholars from Camden County, myself and Connie. And I thought it was possible because of him. I think about the financial realities of receiving the scholarship and that my parents didn't have to worry about how they were going to fund me going to school. I think about my community knowing that all the things that they invested in me were worthwhile. The coaches who picked me up early in the morning to take me to workouts, the teachers who would let me come to class three minutes late so I could go eat some breakfast. Another teacher who would keep a pillow and blanket in the side of her classroom so I could take a nap after being up all night doing homework after practice, after applying for scholarships. And so my whole thing is my name was in the scholarship, but it was a testament to the community behind me that had invested in me. And that’s what makes me so excited about all the ways I can invest back in North Carolina now.
(Allyson)
Yeah, it’s amazing that now you're paying it forward to the Foundation, especially for today. What was your favorite Morehead-Cain summer? And did it allow for you to reflect on something that led to your career either at Well or Google?
(Ray)
Back then it was called public service, and I was in rural Uganda, in Masaka, Uganda. It was my first time ever going international. It was my first time ever being part of the visible majority, and it enriched my life in so many different ways. Prior to that, I was a pharmacy major, and so I was taking all the chemistries and biology, and I was going to go into research pharmacy and find a cure for exercise-induced asthma. I had it all planned out. And I was volunteering in the pharmacy in Uganda, and I’m counting out medicine to pass out to HIV positive clients. And one day, I’m passing out medication, and the head pharmacist is talking to me, and he’s saying some of these people won’t take their medication. So my Western mentality gets upset immediately. “Why in the world would they not take this medicine that’s going to improve their life?” And he says, he gave me a couple of scenarios: “What if you’re out in this remote village and people don’t like that you’re taking this medication so you’re socially ostracized? Or what if you’re a young child and your mother took this medicine, but she didn’t have the full regimen, and so eventually she passes away? Do you now have an association that that medicine killed your mother?” And so to me, that was a gut punch. And it reminded me that there’s so much more to health than doctors and medicine. There’s this cultural layer, too. There’s this awareness and social context. And so I got back to Carolina, switched my major to global health with a concentration, and I switched it to global studies with a concentration in global health. And for me, I started focusing on all the different ways that people perceive health, all the different elements that are a part of it. And that unlocked my desire to put myself in the shoes of other communities, other cultures. That led me to South Korea. That was a happy accident. That led me to my time at Google. But then it all came full circle at Well, where I’m combining my technology experiences with that health orientation of my undergraduate experiences, always thinking about what are the levers that cause people to perceive their optimal health and wellness, and how can we be a part of them actualizing their fullest potential?
(Stella)
Yeah, and speaking of Well, it describes the app as a daily health partner for each individual. And I’m curious, what does your day-to-day look like at Well? And what do you really think that wellness means to you after seeing those people in Uganda and after South Korea? What does that look like to you?
(Ray)
Yes, I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately in the context of my job. And so, the first thing I’ll say is I’d imagine it’s safe to say anybody we meet wants to live a healthier life. Everyone, in theory, wants to live their best health, but there’s a lot of things that get in the way. How can we remove the things that get in the way of people living their healthy and happiest life? A lot of people know good things to do about their health, but we don’t always think about it in the moment when we need to make the decisions. So how do we surface the right information at the right moment? How do we give proper incentives for people to do the things that will materially improve their health? That’s what Well is seeking to do. In terms of my work, it’s thinking about this technology that we’ve built, this human engagement that we’ve established, the evidence that we’ve proven that we are able to be a partner with people and their best health. How do I create pathways for more people to get access to what we’ve built? How do I set us up that more people can benefit from what we have going on? When I think about wellness, I think it’s the idea that everyone has the opportunity to live their healthiest life. Now, that’s not comparing Ray to the Olympic athlete. That’s comparing Ray to the best version of Ray that he could be. And how do we help people aspire and achieve that element?
(Stella)
And you mentioned in your talk this morning about what you’re learning about that you want to focus on energy management versus time management. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that?
(Ray)
Yes. In some of my learning, people are saying that when we optimize our time, we typically get more free time in our schedule that we then fill with more things, versus when we optimize our energy, we’re acknowledging that as a human being, my energy is finite, and there’s always a lot of things competing for my energy, for my attention. How do I think about where to invest my energy in the places of maximum impact, the things I love doing the most, the things I’m really, really good at doing, and the things that have the greatest value to the world around me? And so that’s something that I’m navigating now is with the many things that are possible and available for me, where can I focus my energy? And then also recognizing that energy doesn’t translate directly into time. Sometimes taking the time to rest, sometimes taking the time to disengage and do something that’s not productive allows me to be more effective and productive on whatever it is that I’m doing. One thing that I particularly think I’m good at and I enjoy doing and is valuable to others is engaging, it’s facilitating, it’s having conversations like this. And so how do I craft more opportunities to do that? How do I craft more opportunities to listen to others and bring out the good that is already in them? That’s an idea of energy management. There’s some things I don’t love doing. I’m not very visually creative. And so the idea of having to put together a PowerPoint presentation will make me sweat immediately. Are there ways that I can let that take up less of my time? So that’s kind of what comes to mind for me when I think about the energy management.
(Stella)
I think that’s definitely a lesson. I know that a lot of Morehead-Cain scholars struggle with impostor syndrome. And I think that’s definitely a lesson of you don’t have to be doing something productive at every time. Productivity doesn’t mean getting ahead in your class or getting ahead in your career. Sometimes it means just taking a rest or just reviving that energy.
(Allyson)
Just in one sentence, could you just describe what wellness means to you as a whole?
(Ray)
I have everything I need to live my fullest life physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and socially.
(Stella)
I love that. That’s awesome.
(Allyson)
Yeah.
(Stella)
So kind of touching back to, you mentioned before, South Korea, and I’m sure not very many of our scholars kind of know what you did there. But you received a Fulbright grant after graduating from Carolina to teach there. What surprised you the most while living there?
(Ray)
Wow. Korea was the most American I ever felt. I was introduced at my school, so doing the English teaching assistant program. I went through intensive training in language, in the Korean educational system, in Korean culture. So when I showed up to my school on day one, I had some foundational knowledge of what was going on. But when they would introduce me, I was “Ray, the American teacher.” I had never been purely American before. When I’m in the US, I’m Black American. African American. Some hyphenation of the sort. But there I got to represent what America is. I may have been the first American that many people ever met, and so I got to set the standard of what it was. I got to be the first black person some people ever met, and I got to set the standard of what it was. And that was so empowering for me.
The other thing I loved about Korea was I didn’t want anyone to adapt to me at all. I lived with a homestay family, and in Korean culture, a lot of times we would eat out of communal dishes and things like that. Mind, for everyone listening, this is pre-COVID, so a different set the standards, but everything’s in the center of the table. You may have your dish of rice, but everyone’s picking out of the same plates. My family knows that in America, people have their individual plates. And so the first night at dinner, they made a separate plate for me, and I wouldn’t touch it. I ate everything out of the middle. So then the second night, they didn’t make a separate plate for me anymore, and I just became a part of the family.
(Stella)
That's awesome.
(Ray)
My Korean was not that great, but I would try to use it as much as possible. I would try to adopt the social behaviors, the body language, and everything like that. And so the opportunity for me to show a willingness and a desire to be immersed in the community was incredible.
(Allyson)
And on that note of being immersed in the community, today was the commemoration of the five year anniversary of the toppling of Silent Sam and the creation of the Black Alumni Working Group. So can you speak to why you decided to join this group? And what do you believe are its main goals?
(Ray)
Yes, so we know the storied history of our state, of our university, some of the things that have transpired over the past years, as it relates to Silent Sam, as we think about the pandemic, as we think about the murder of George Floyd. And so I will be straightforward that some of our work as a Black alumni working group was birthed out of those instances, out of a moment of tragedy, needing to show up to ensure that our scholars had what they need to sustain themselves, to be successful at Carolina. What I’m most excited about is this transition point we are at right now, where instead of being reactive to tragedy, we are proactively creating a culture and an environment and a community where people feel as if they have everything they need to be successful, where we don’t have to wait for another tragedy, where we can say, “Hey, there’s a lot of value here for this community. There’s a lot of value in our alumni base. Let’s bring that to the forefront.” And so that’s what I was inspired by, showing up for people in the moment, but also thinking about how can we do things before a moment comes. How do we not require a Herculean effort to be our best, but let’s do it just because we’re capable of it. And I’m seeing that manifested in the way that alumni are showing up and giving them their time and their expertise. I’m seeing that in the way that scholars are showing up with passion for what they want to do academically and socially, in their thirst for engaging with folks of different generations and walks of life and career paths. And so that’s a little bit about what I’m seeing from this group, and I think there’s a tremendous path ahead for us.
(Stella)
Yeah. And so you graduated almost ten years ago, and I’m wondering, and you’ve stayed very much involved in the Foundation, you’re most like a celebrity in our class because of your video. And so I’m wondering, how have you seen the Foundation grow from we are in this transition point now to be proactive instead of reactive, but what is the growth that we need to continue to do? But how have you seen it grow in the last ten years since you’ve graduated?
(Ray)
Communication is essential to everything. So the Foundation as a collective, building muscle to talk about things that are a part of our life, but often don’t get discussed. We bring on the lens of Southern hospitality and politeness and social expectation. There’s some things we just don’t talk about. I call that the Bless your Heart Effect. When something uncomfortable comes up, people are just all, “Bless your heart, and we’re not going to talk about that because that’s not polite for right now.” But the ability and the muscle to navigate challenging conversations in a way that’s not trying to compel one person to take a different position, but to allow civil discourse. We’ve heard that terminology a lot. The ability to be curious and understand someone else’s perspective and ask questions, the ability to challenge our own assumptions, the ability to be wrong is something that is paramount for us to go. And I’ve seen the Foundation make some intentional efforts there. What’s needed as we continue on this journey is always giving ourselves a healthy dose of humility. As great as we are, as much as we’ve accomplished, as far as we’ve come, we’ve never arrived. We never will arrive. And so knowing that as great as we want to be, we always have further to go. And letting that fuel us to have a healthy dissatisfaction of the way things are now, to figure out how we bring in more voices, to figure out how we make sure even across different generational contexts, everyone feels like their perspective is valued, and everyone feels an equal responsibility to evolve. I think those are the things that we’ve done and the things that we’ll need to continue doing to take this thing to the next level.
(Allyson)
Yeah, that’s amazing. What would you consider your biggest takeaway from your experience at Carolina?
(Ray)
I can’t really tell you too much about the classes that I took. If we sat here for another 30 minutes or so, I probably could call up some reflections from the classroom. But I can tell you about this one particular night where I was supposed to be studying, and I found myself in a room with three or four other students who are from lived experiences very different from me. And coming up from rural North Carolina where I wasn’t exposed to a lot and just hearing the type of conversation that we were having, I don’t think I slept more than two hours that night because my brain was just so engaged by a different perspective. And I think when people say the people is the best thing, it’s that thing, it’s the perspective that was gained and how that continues on. I mean, I’ve gone abroad, I’ve gone out to California, and I’ve come back to North Carolina, and this Carolina community, it still means something. And for me what it means is I’m going to get a different perspective, and it’s going to challenge me to get better. That’s one thing I’ll say. I also got to give a shout out to [B]SKI’S (restaurant) because they’re not here anymore. But that was my spot on Franklin Street, where I went, and that was essentially my meal plan. So I think about that. That’s a big difference from ten years ago.
(Stella)
Well, so you talk a lot about bringing perspectives, whether it’s to South Korea as an American, or to the Morehead-Cain Foundation as someone from a small town, or as a Black man. I think it’s very important that you’re bringing those perspectives. But I think it’s also important to acknowledge that sometimes when you don’t have the same experiences as someone else, it can be hard to find that middle ground to have a conversation. What are those first steps that you take to ensure that you’re bringing your perspective, but you’re also respecting the perspective that they’re bringing?
(Ray)
Most settings, I prefer to start out as a listener, and so my ability to ask questions, to be curious, and then to actually listen. Something I’ve noticed in life, especially in a big family, we talk over each other all the time. And most of the times, because we don’t want to forget what’s on our mind. So when we’re listening to somebody, we’re basically listening for the pause in the conversation so we can get our point in.
(Stella)
Right.
(Ray)
What I’ve been working on is, how do I listen to really understand what someone is talking about? Not listening enough so I can have a response to sound smart. Not listening so I can give a counterpoint. But saying, “They’ve just communicated something to me. They’ve honored me with their time and with their voice. Am I really understanding what it is that they’re talking about?” So showing up curious, asking questions, and knowing how to listen are important. Now when it’s my time to speak, how do I own my words? I’m particularly mindful of this when I talk to scholars. As much as I’ve learned, as much as I’ve experienced, I don’t immediately assume that I have the right to give them advice. Their life is different than mine. Their current context is different than mine. And so I haven’t yet earned a right to give advice. But I will share parts of my story as information that they can choose to adopt if they want to. I think about it kind of like a buffet. It’s out there. You can choose to eat it if you want. I’ll put a spoon in it, even. But I’m not going to tell you, you better eat this because it’s good for you. I don’t know what their diet is. I don’t know what their goals are. I don’t know what they’re trying to accomplish. And so to me, that’s how I think about showing up with my unique perspective, but also honoring the perspective of others. It’s taking ownership for what I have. But even before I get a word in, am I taking the opportunity to learn about who I’m engaging with? We all make assumptions, right? And so when I speak to someone, when I engage with them, when I listen, I’m giving myself a chance to go beyond the assumption and let that person represent themselves the way they choose to do.
(Stella)
That’s awesome.
(Allyson)
Yeah. So utilizing those experiences and topics that you just touched upon, do you use these in your roles as a coach and consultant at Project Be Better? And are there any topics that you’ve seen that are prevalent and reoccurring, specifically within college students or current Morehead-Cain scholars?
(Ray)
Yes, so Project Be Better is a coaching and consulting firm that I started a few years ago. It came from continuous feedback. I’ve heard it said that if you want to know what you’re good at, what do people call on you to do? And I’m often called on to give people perspective or to listen as someone is working through a challenging decision. Family and friends will call me and say, “Ray, I’m thinking about this new job,” or “I’m thinking about this situation,” or, “Somebody just told me this. How do I respond?” And I was getting that so often, I said, “There’s something there.” And then I thought about, again, what am I good at? What do I love? What’s valuable to the community? I enjoy creating space for people to feel heard because I think about all the times in life where I wasn’t heard, where someone heard enough to give me some advice, but they hadn’t gotten the full story. So Project Be Better is about creating space for people to understand their past, take control of their present, and create their future. And so with that, I work with some college students through the Morehead-Cain, more pro bono, if you will. And then there’s other people that I’ve worked with more formally, and some of the topics that come up are, what should I do next? What’s the pathway supposed to be?
(Stella)
Every college student asks that question.
(Ray)
Like, give me the game plan. I need to know the next seven steps to know exactly how I’m going to get there. And I acknowledge that that’s my preference, too. I would love to have the full story. I would love to know what the outcome is going to be before I get there, and I can just keep going. But life hasn’t proven it to be the case for me so far. And so what I like to lean into is what is within our control, what is not within our control, and what is the value of letting ourselves have that exploration? I think a lot about milestones and checkpoints. I am notorious for wanting to have all the pieces of information before I make a decision. And so knowing that about myself and my journey, I offer that to others in the coaching space. How can we take an action now, and how do we build in a checkpoint? So let’s say I want to take a new job opportunity, but I don’t know if this is going to get me a promotion to CEO. That’s hard to know. So maybe I define that this is the right opportunity for these four reasons. And I’m going to check in with myself in a month, in three months, six months, in a year. I’ve given myself these milestones, and I’ve given myself some criteria. Am I learning? Am I being valued? Is this a safe environment for me to be successful? Am I doing something that is impactful? And on month one, yeah, it’s great. Month three is still feeling good. Month six, I have some challenges, but I’m still excited about, and I get to a year, and these things are amazing, and these things are not. So now I know where to focus my energy, and so that prevents me from looking up ten years from now and saying, “How did I get here?” But it also gives me permission in between the milestones to just fully engage in the present experience and not be weighted down by the pressure of having the perfect pathway. So that’s one of the topics that I think comes up.
(Stella)
No, that’s great. We really appreciate you for joining us, for talking all the way from Carolina to South Korea, all the way up to Well and your work at Project Be Better, and we’re hoping that scholars will resonate with your stories, and I’m sure they will. So we really appreciate you. Thank you for your time.
(Ray)
It’s a pleasure to be here today. Thank y’all so much for allowing me to share this space.
(Stella)
Of course. Thank you.